Comments on: WaPo: Verizon Records to Feds Without Order

by: DragonLady

Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:41:58 +0000

Yes, true about the DB’s. That little “problem” personally affected me when the VA had that laptop “stolen.” I quote stolen because the dumbass should never have had that data outside of a secured facility. And as someone who has worked in secure factilities for the past 8 eight years, I feel I can say that guy was an incompetent boob who should not EVER be allowed inside a gov’t facility let alone be responsible for sensitive data.

by: Stanford Matthews

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:04:16 +0000

Yo, DL, tanx for stoppin’ in.
Your viewpoint brings to mind the term CYA

I still find it interesting that the FISA thing has many upset but my reference to DB’s chocked full of personal data and being compromised does not draw the same outrage.

by: Stanford Matthews

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:59:52 +0000

Wrong, Jan:

Here’s my whole point in the simplest terms I can muster right now. There is an issue over FISA and the Verizon story is related. Verizon provided records to the gov’t with and without court orders. There is a need to gather intel. There are many opinions about what is the right AND wrong thing to do. I currently submit no conclusion but state briefly what I see as the problem and how we might do better to determine a solution. That’s it.

by: DragonLady

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:16:07 +0000

See, now I look at this totally from a different perspective because I have never treated telephone conversations as private. Hence, I don’t say anything on a telephone I don’t want overheard by anyone, government or not. I can’t even call that a leftover “force protection” thing because I was that way long before I put on a uniform. So I don’t see this as a loss of a freedom and therefore do not “fear” the US Government “spying” on me. Neither do I fear death. The islamic terrorists are a much much greater evil, along with their apologists, than the US Government is.

by: Jan

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:41:56 +0000

No. Allow me to explain to you:

I did argue the whole piece, and especially your quote.
Here’s the summary:

“Are you taking that chance [with your liberties]?
I’m not.”

You are debating a “compromise” to allow Verizon to share our records with the government, whether what the government is asking for from Verizon is legal to ask for or not — for the sake of your security against violent extremists.

I’m unwilling to make that compromise. Give me Liberty or give me Death. I’m just not that afraid of dying.

by: Stanford Matthews

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:13:10 +0000

Rather than select quotes from the post and argue out of context, try understanding the entire piece.

Here’s a quote for ya.

There has to be some kind of compromise between what citizens expect or deserve and what is possible or practical in matters of intelligence gathering. There are no conclusions or answers here, within this blog post, just a reminder we may need to be more diligent in our appraisal of what is right and what is wrong. What we can afford to allow or disallow.

Do I need to explain that to you?

by: Jan

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:35:32 +0000

re: “While Ben Franklin said ‘ he who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither’, this may not be a case of sacrificing freedom but measuring rights, responsibilities and the best course for achieving success as life becomes more instant and more deadly.”

Or… This may be a case of sacrificing your freedom.

Are you taking that chance?
I’m not.

Yes, life does become more deadly with violent extremists on the planet, but that’s nothing new. The world has had violent extremists forever.

Do I have it correct, then, that you are no longer willing to stand up and cry, “Give me Liberty or give me Death” because you are afraid to die?
Sad.

(And does anyone know why the Americans who say they believe in heaven appear to be the Americans among us who are the most afraid to die? I’m an atheist and, for the life of me, I can’t figure that one out.)

by: University Update - Verizon - WaPo: Verizon Records to Feds Without Order

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:47:10 +0000

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